This Storman Norman signing off for now. Good debating to all.

Blessings upon you all.

As I have grown and aged, though, my reasoning has gone in different directions. Having seen the harm alcohol can do (over and over again through so many ruined lives)and also seeing the joy and pleasure one can partake in without alcohol I simply now see no good reason to drink alcohol. Whether it was to remain a part of our covenant or as Dave suggests, were to at some point be removed, I would not drink simply because in my opinion it is a stupid thing to do. Abstinence removes the possibility of having one drink too many even once and thereby having my judgment clouded and choosing to do something I would not normally do.

I agree with Dave that the Bible must be our guide but there are some things not specfically addressed in the Bible. I think one of the biggest is the invention of the automobile. When people left the wedding in Canaan after Jesus’ first miracle (and yes it was definitely alcohol He made), they did not then get behind the wheels of large metal killing machines. Their camels were not drunk. Times have changed and the risks associated with drinknig far outweigh any perceived benefit which would pale in comparison to the joy of being full of the Holy Spirit.

I just fail to see any scenario in which a Chirstian in today’s world would want to drink alcohol. Period.

I am now a part of a different church body and my viewpoint has shifted slightly. My concern is not so much with the consumption of alcohol, which like any other thing can be a joy or a hindrance but with the army preoccupation with it’s control.

Again, I understand the background of the army and even that some of its major centers still operate in locations torn apart by alcohol abuse but allow me to give you an outsider perspective. I have watched Salvationists openly shun and look down upon wonderful Christian people for their responsible consumption of alcohol. They seem to think that they are truly not following the word if they even approach a glass of wine or a drink with friends. This causes me to wonder what on earth they would have done at the wedding feast where Jesus celebrated? That concerns me. Does the decision to “set yourself apart” allow you some measure of pride?

My second concern is with the promise to abstain appearing within the articles of war. It seems to me that if we are to covenant anything in this earthly world it should consist only of what the Lord asks us within His word. Aside from that we are trapped in legalism and law making which is certainly not what He would wish for us. This creates for us some sort of safety net of rules so that we see our Christianity as defined by the things that we do and not our relationship to God and His living word. That is dangerous ground. Just some food for thought.

As I read through the posts to date, an old saying that my dear mother always used to repeat comes to mind. “What a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive.” If one were to attempt to counter each point made by those who support a stance on “social drinking” my poor hands would be cramped. Suffice to say most arguments that support the “demon” fall under a few common principles that don’t hold much water and lead down the same slippery slope.
The term “social drinking” in itself is just of another of humankind’s feeble attempts at justifying the sin, which in this case is just another blatant form of idol worship.
If each one of us were to honestly stand (or bow) before a Holy God and ask a simple question the truth will become quite apparent. The question is this, “What is it that is in (or missing from) my life that causes me to believe that I need to drink?” Once you get your answer, and for some it may take a few rotations through the old flow chart, our loving and all-powerful God is more than capable of dealing with whatever is revealed.

Many blessings to all.

Again guys, great conversation and I am sure it will continue for many years to come on many different levels.

Blessings
Tony

I did not mean to say that the problem is unique to Ontario. I was born and raised in Newfoundland, I am an officer as well and have served in Newfoundland, Bermuda, and Ontario. I was just giving my context when I mentioned Ontario.

I am in full support of a ‘well rounded’ local church body (corps). We have folks of every background at our corps. As you have said, this is absolutely essential to the Body. But this idea enforces my point. Perhaps I should have been more clear and said that it is important for the leadership of the body, not necessarily all the members, to create an safe and accepting environment for anyone who we might come into contact with.

My stance is not one of fundamentalism. I acknowledge all the other vices of character and such that affect society and the church and how little the church has traditionally done to address them. But at our corps we have set out to create an environment where we are honest and accountable to God and each other, allowing God to work in our lives to deal with all the aspects of our lives and character, both those that can be ‘observed’ and those that only the Spirit of God can know about. We have folks in our leadership at the corps who are social drinkers and also who have no issues with mild gambling, and others who from time to time gossip, slander, over eat, and so on. But as leadership we have all made commitments to the God, the corps, and each other to allow the Spirit of God to do the work He needs to do in us.

The people in my corps that take the same strong stance, are not for the most part life long Salvationists. I will qualify this by saying that our corps is different than many others, and we do not have a lot of life long Salvationists. It is interesting that some of the people who take an opposite point of view from me have been a part of the Army for the majority of thier lives. But, some of those who do share my view are those whose lives and families have been affected or nearly ndestoryed by acholol, and understand from personal expereince that no amount acholol is truly safe.

Thanks for the conversation.

There is ongoing unofficial dialogue among Salvationists as to whether abstinence from alcohol should be a part of the Soldier’s Covenant. This debate will probably be with the Army until Christ returns. I share my perspective through the lens of my experience and officership. I pastor a growing church in an urban setting. Most of the people in my church are new to ‘church’ and The Salvation Army. For them, the issue of abstinence is not an issue nor is social drinking. It is a non-issue! For those of other denominational backgrounds who have joined our church, there is no issue with the consumption of alcohol; although they would have a real issue with the over-indulgence of it.

In terms of The Salvation Army and its stance on alcohol, I believe ‘context’ is of utmost importance. The Salvation Army is a vast Army of God that is spread all over this world. The context and culture in one society is no doubt different from other contexts and cultures. In other words, the context of The Salvation Army’s presence in downtown Toronto or Vancouver will look much different than The Salvation Army in other urban settings. It may very well look different from one urban setting to another. Therefore the issue of the social consumption of alcohol may best be addressed based on local context. The social drink may prove detrimental to the work of the Army in some areas whereas in other settings it may be a hindrance or obstacle to abstain from the social drink. It is critical for officers and lay leaders to be keenly aware of their context and setting.

From my experience and vantage point, the cookie-cutter model of Salvation Army policies and guidelines (including its stance on alcohol) do not equally apply to all contexts and situations. I do believe the Army’s leadership is beginning to recognize this matter.